Rob Avann, charity consultant and interim leader: governance, the board-CEO relationship and why every CEO should be a trustee somewhere

In this episode, Adam is joined by Rob Avann, charity consultant, interim leader and seasoned trustee, for a conversation that gets into the real nuts and bolts of charity governance and why so many organisations are still getting it wrong.

With 20 years in the sector, eight years as a permanent CEO, experience as an interim CEO, and 16 years across five trustee boards, Rob brings a rare 360-degree perspective. He shares how his career began in local government, commissioning services around crime, domestic violence and community safety, before a growing connection to the charity sector pulled him across. His first trustee role came before his first charity job, and that sequence, he argues, shaped everything that followed.

The conversation digs into what makes the board-CEO relationship work, why it so often doesn't, and what both sides consistently get wrong. Rob is candid about the mistakes he sees in his consultancy work, from the absence of clear governance frameworks to boards that drift into the operational when clarity breaks down. He also reflects honestly on the transition from CEO to consultant, the difference in mindset between permanent and interim leadership, and why delegation is never optional.

A frank and practical conversation for anyone sitting on a board, leading a charity, or trying to understand what good governance actually looks like in practice.

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction and background
• 08:23 Why trusteeship is pivotal for trustees and CEOs alike
• 10:08 What goes wrong between boards and chief executives
• 16:44 Navigating the line between governance and operations
• 21:44 Leading through COVID and the value of strong foundations
• 23:36 Mentoring, great managers and how to find support
• 28:10 The transition to consulting: variety, freedom and the odd sleepless night
• 32:17 Permanent vs interim CEO: a different mindset entirely
• 36:55 Governance reviews: holding up a mirror to organisations
• 40:27 Leadership advice and what Rob would tell his younger self